Sitting Lesharo

by **dudedog** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:09 pm

I asked this question before but I thoght id try again. I have a 1988 for years and I just aquired a 1989 ls. It appears To be a bendex. What are the differences in the two systems. Can I buy the same parts as my 1988. Will most parts interchange. The 1989 has been sitting for 10 years. It has a half tank of gas. Is it super important to remove this gas or could I add fresh gas and and maybe a stabalizer? Has anyone ever siphoned these. I tried and could not seem to reach gas. Is there any other way to drain short of dropping the tank. Just got a key made and I have not tried to start it yet. Sort of looked at it for parts but found it to only have 30k So I hope it can run. I need a passenger roll out window for a fair price. Can I have one cut? Any sugestions before I try to start helpful. I will need various parts if it runs. Owner died and it was full of crap and some inside parts missing like knobs to ac. Had a leak so I have to figure on a roof fix. He started to fix but never finished. Back window is gone and a pannel has been rivited on. I will fix up if it runs. I changed oil. Trans fluid looks ok and does not smell burned.
Fred.

--- lesharo-owners 1449345601.M702250P3756Q1

by **Larry Sr** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:50 pm

Hi Fred.
Compare the engines, The 88 and some 89's had the Bosch engine, other 89ns has the Bendix. Tell 'em apart by the location of the oil filler cap. if in front (radiator end) it is a Bosch, if in back near the firewall, it is a Bendix.
Mos,t if not all of the body, suspension, wheels. tires brakes etc will will interchange, almost of the engine or transmissions are different. If they are both Bosch, you probably make one good one outta both. Windows are the same, doors will interchange, dash and instruments will swap out. What is left, you might make swaps to other owners for parts you need.
I am kinda busy today, call me tonight, maybe I can help you with your questions.
937-878-2000 0r cell 937 545-5196 information is free.

Larry Sr
lsrschoppe@aol.com

--- lesharo-owners 1449345601.M827250P3756Q2

by **passingtime2** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:33 pm

When I was doing a conversion on ours, I slid the filler tube off the tank from underneath and had a G.M. pump with a hose and wires I slid into the tank and pumped it empty. If its a bendex it will not have a tin shield with computer box under the passengers seat ( on the side toward the center )

by **CHRIS SPENCER** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:28 am

I found this write up on a "Hot Rod" web site that had a good write up on the differences between the Speed Density (Bendix) and MAF (Bosch) systems. The only NOTE I need to add is that when talking about the AFM system he talks about the MAF SENSOR. We have the earlier (first actually) version of the MAF system witch uses a AIR FLOW METER. It is an electro-mechanical device that has a spring loaded hinged plate connected to a rheostat (light dimmer switch). As air flows through the meter the plate is sucked open and the rheostat signals the computer where the plate is (air flow) but the principle is the same. Not much will be interchangeable between the two systems. The A?C knobs can be found at any hardware store. They are small so try to find one that has "ears" so you can get a good grip on it. Don't forget that the rear window is also the fire escape!

Code: Select all: Speed Density systems accept input from sensors that measure engine speed (in rpm) and load (manifold vacuum in kPa), then the computer calculates airflow requirements by referring to a much larger (in comparison to an N Alpha system) preprogrammed lookup table, a map of thousands of values that equates to the engines volumetric efficiency (VE) under varying conditions of throttle position and engine speed. Engine rpm is provided via a tach signal, while vacuum is transmitted via an intake manifold-mounted Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensor. Since air density changes with air temperature, an intake manifold-mounted sensor is also used.

Production-based Speed Density computers also utilize an oxygen (O2) sensor mounted in the exhaust tract. The computer looks at the air/fuel ratio from the O2sensor and corrects the fuel delivery for any errors. This helps compensate for wear and tear and production variables. Other sensors on a typical Speed Density system usually include an idle-air control motor to help regulate idle speed, a throttle-positionsensor that transmits the percentage of throttle opening, a coolant-temperature sensor, and a knock sensor as a final fail-safe that hears detonation so the computer can retard timing as needed.

GMs Tuned Port Injection (TPI) set-ups used Speed Density metering from 90-'92, as did 91-'93 LT1 engines. All 86-'87 and 88 non-California Ford 5.0L-HO engines used Speed Density metering. Most Mopar fuel- injection systems have used Speed Density too.

Because a Speed Density system still has no sensors that directly measure engine airflow, all the fuel mapping points must be preprogrammed, so any significant change to the engine that alters its VE requires reprogramming the computer.

By contrast, Mass Air Flow (MAF) systems use a sensor mounted in front of the throttle body that directly measures the amount of air inducted into the engine. The most common type of mass-flow sensor is the hot wire design: Air flows past a heated wire thats part of a circuit that measures electrical current. Current flowing through the wire heats it to a temperature that is always held above the inlet air temperature by a fixed amount. Air flowing across the wire draws away some of the heat, so an increase in current flow is required to maintain its fixed temperature. The amount of current needed to heat the wire is proportional to the mass of air flowing across the wire. The mass-air meter also includes a temperature sensor that provides a correction for intake air temperature so the output signal is not affected by it.

The MAF sensors circuitry converts the current reading into a voltage signal for the computer, which in turn equates the voltage value to mass flow. Typical MAF systems also use additional sensors similar to those found in Speed Density systems. Once the electronic control module (ECM) knows the amount of air entering the engine, it looks at these other sensors to determine the engine's current state of operation (idle, acceleration, cruise, deceleration, operatingtemperature, and so on), then refers to an electronic map to find the appropriate air/fuel ratio and select the fuel-injector pulse width required to match the inputsignals.

GM used MAF sensors on the turbo Buick V-6 Grand National, 85-'89 TPI, 94-'98 LT1, 96 LT4, and all LS1 engines. Ford has used MAF metering on 88 California 5.0L engines and all 89-and-later V-8 engines.

MAF systems are much more flexible in their ability to compensate for engine changes since they actually measure airflow instead of computing it based on preprogrammed assumptions. They are self-compensating for most reasonable upgrades, as well as extremely accurate under low-speed, part-throttle operation. On the other hand, the MAF meter, mounted as it is ahead of the throttle-body, can become an airflow restriction on high-horsepower engines. On nonstock engine retrofits or EFI conversions on engines never produced with fuel injection, it may be hard to package an MAF meter within the confines of the engine bay and available intake manifolding.

Which Is Best?
In a perfect world, virtually all street-performance engines would use Mass Air, due to its superior accuracy and greater tolerance for engine changes. In the past there was a problem on high-horsepower engines because larger-capacity MAFsensors were scarce and prohibitively expensive. Nowadays, oversize MAF sensors are available from Pro-M, Granatelli Racing, and other sources that are compatible with Ford engines and computers. Custom MAF calibration keyed to the specific vehicle, engine, and injector size is also available. With a correctly calibrated oversize meter, reflashing the computer usually isn't required

--- lesharo-owners 1449403202.M936625P1276Q1

by **RonOhler** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:36 pm

If you can't siphon the tank - you could use the fuel pump to drain it by by-passing the tachnometric relay and extending the fuel line so that you could reach a separate container.
That said.
Ours had been sitting a decade and had half a tank of fuel in it when I bought it. It started up great. Ran just fine. This made me rather confident on it's ability to make the trip home. I drove it to the very first gas station I could get to. I filled it with premium to help offset the loss of octane that would have occurred with the stored fuel. We ended up not making the 50 mile drive home without having to clean the fuel filter. I ended up running multiple doses of fuel system cleaner through it as it had plugging issues of the in-tank filter. Ultimately I ended up dropping the tank and replacing the fuel lines and dealing with the plugged intake filter and a fuel level sender that was not working properly. This was not all that bad a job. I did make sure to use 1/4inch drive sockets on the hose clamps rather than a screw driver. I also reinstalled the tank using several new clamps. It does make a big difference as to what the orientation of the clamps is when reinstalling them. If done wrong it really makes the job much more difficult. As the worm/gear type clamps tighten - the angle of the screw changes and this must be planned for as there is so little room to work within.
Best,RonO

From: "derfnarb@yahoo.com [Lesharo-owners]"
To: Lesharo-owners
Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2015 2:09 PM
Subject: [Lesharo-owners] Sitting Lesharo

I asked this question before but I thoght id try again. I have a 1988 for years and I just aquired a 1989 ls. It appears To be a bendex. What are the differences in the two systems. Can I buy the same parts as my 1988. Will most parts interchange. The 1989 has been sitting for 10 years. It has a half tank of gas. Is it super important to remove this gas or could I add fresh gas and and maybe a stabalizer? Has anyone ever siphoned these. I tried and could not seem to reach gas. Is there any other way to drain short of dropping the tank. Just got a key made and I have not tried to start it yet. Sort of looked at it for parts but found it to only have 30k So I hope it can run. I need a passenger roll out window for a fair price. Can I have one cut? Any sugestions before I try to start helpful. I will need various parts if it runs. Owner died and it was full of crap and some inside parts missing like knobs to ac. Had a leak so I have to figure on a roof fix. He started to fix but never finished. Back window is gone and a pannel has been rivited on. I will fix up if it runs. I changed oil. Trans fluid looks ok and does not smell burned.Fred. #yiv9117263301 #yiv9117263301 -- #yiv9117263301ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv9117263301 #yiv9117263301ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv9117263301 #yiv9117263301ygrp-mkp #yiv9117263301hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv9117263301 #yiv9117263301ygrp-mkp #yiv9117263301ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv9117263301 #yiv9117263301ygrp-mkp .yiv9117263301ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv9117263301 #yiv9117263301ygrp-mkp .yiv9117263301ad p {margin:0;}#yiv9117263301 #yiv9117263301ygrp-mkp .yiv9117263301ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9117263301 #yiv9117263301ygrp-sponsor #yiv9117263301ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv9117263301 #yiv9117263301ygrp-sponsor #yiv9117263301ygrp-lc #yiv9117263301hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv9117263301 #yiv9117263301ygrp-sponsor #yiv9117263301ygrp-lc 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--- lesharo-owners 1449457201.M499125P3416Q1

by **dudedog** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:35 am

Thanks Ron, I guess that confirmed I need to drain the existing gas. I did not think about letting the fuel pump drain this. It seems like it has to be running for the pump to turn on.Its in a storage lot and I am anxious to see if it runs. There is no way I could drop the tank without towing it to a shop. I did not want to chance fowling the system. The tires are bad from sitting to long and going low. They have great tread but are history. I hesitate to spend to much on this until I know it will be worth it. I thought I could siphen but I cant seem to hit gas. It may have problems but with barely 30 k I feel it should be made usable. Not sure why it was stored so long. There are no obvious problems. Nasty inside when I first got it. I swore my present LS would be the last one I would own but how could I pass it up for $350.

--- lesharo-owners 1449468002.M014750P3864Q1

by **Larry Sr** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:11 pm

Fred, Ron about the clamps.
For best results, I use fuel line hose clamps. They clamp so much better than the common worm drive clamps and don't have the possibility of allowing a "bunch" in the hose at the clamp point.
To pump fuel out of the tank, I add a length of hose to the fuel line between the injector manifold going into the fuel pressure regulator and secure it to a grounded container. Use the D1 (6 connector) Diagnostic Plug on the cowl to run the pump...connect pin 5 (battery B+) to pin 6 (fuel pump) .
If the fuel coming out smells rotten, it is. Dispose of it legally. Don't use it in your lawn mower, it will goof up the carburetor.

Larry Sr
lsrschoppe@aol.com

--- lesharo-owners 1449518401.M811625P3676Q1

by **Sojourner** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:14 am

Folks have pretty much covered it but i just went through this myself.

The filler hose is not at the very top of the tank, more like 2/3 the way up. Might be tough to get a siphon in there, maybe with some flex hose. It's worth a try.

The problem with pumping through the lines with fuel filter is the sock filter catching debri. Its a fine mesh filter and once clogged you have the drop the tank. Now if you getting the fuel out to drop the tank, different story.

My tank was really shoe horned in there.
Get everything out of the way, ebrake, exhaust shield, loosen all the lines and be sure to keep track of which lines to where.

Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy S

by **Roberta Radavich** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:52 am

Each time I see this topic I can't help wondering... we manage to have
some sort of way to deal with oil pans and their occasional needs for
new drain plugs... is there some alternative out there that
would just allow folks to drill a hole and add a drain plug in the
bottom of the gas tank... what do you think? It can't be that hard to
seal the little bugger back up...
Roberta

--- lesharo-owners 1449594003.M592875P320Q2

by **'Mark in Lakewood, CO'** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:13 pm

Maybe.... The real challenge, as I see it, is that these fuel tanks are plastic, and installing a drain plug in a plastic tank that won't leak requires a different set of sealing compounds and gaskets than a metal tank (or pan) that seals out oils. Fuels are caustic to silicones, for example.

Using a siphon, electric pump or one of those hand-crank transfer pumps should get out all but the last inch or so, which would be less than a quart. There's no way to completely drain the tank while still in the vehicle.

Mark (now in Centennial, CO)

--- lesharo-owners 1449597601.M514750P3272Q1

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